Curse

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Isolated quoting can always work in someones favour. Looking at the actual article though, it seems clear enough to me he was being dumb and saying that Mo/A is good energy management all the time, which it isn't. I guess though, that running out of energy when your team is dying is a good thing?

He, quite clearly at that, states it's a method of energy management, which it just, isn't. I could say why, but it would just be repeating myself. It's as if he's equating the game to PvE, where mobs won't switch targets when they get protted.

Ghost Recon · Sep 11, 2007, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

PS. "Cookie Cutter" Builds are generally the most effective. I seriously suggest that people stop complaining about them and stop trying to run something innovative that's just bad.

I totally agree everyone should just run the same build for the next 2 years that won't get boring at all.[/sarcasm]

Sekkira · Sep 11, 2007, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

I totally agree everyone should just run the same build for the next 2 years that won't get boring at all.[/sarcasm]

Way to completely misinterpret him. Either that or you're mentally deficient and can only see things in pure extremes of black and white.

He said specifically to stop running builds that are just bad. They're different from the cookie cutter, yes, but different doesn't mean good or useful. The cookie cutters are as such because they're effective and they work well. Why the hell would you run something different if it's clearly inferior?

wilderness · Sep 11, 2007, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Isolated quoting can always work in someones favour. .

Okay, so I'll quote the section in questions entirety:

Quote:

Damage Negation: One method is to negate damage so the Monk doesn't have to follow up with extra prots or heals. An example of this is the Monk/Assassin, popularized by the Last Pride [EvIL]. The Mo/A commonly has two Assassin skills: Return and Dark Escape. These two skills cost 5 Energy each but still save a Monk tremendous amounts of Energy. Using Return to Shadow Step to a distant ally Cripples an attacking Warrior, giving the Monk time to recover. Dark Escape reduces all damage by 50%, which is useful in general, but it becomes even more important when a Monk gets knocked down and can't cast any spells. This skill also gives a 25% speed boost, transforming an ordinary Monk into a superb kiter.

Damage negation skills like these allow Monks to spend less Energy on self-survival, freeing up more Energy to protect both themselves and their teammates. Although the Monk/Assassin has declined in popularity, Monk/Warriors now fill a similar role with skills such as Shield Bash, Defensive Stance, or Soldier's Defense.

He quite clearly adds the fact that damage negation on a monk requires less self heals and therefore saves energy as a healthy by-product to the main focus of the build. This build will give the monk less red to fill, and more prot to dish out which is much more effective when keeping your team standing.

I will stand by your claim that it's badly worded in places, but the core idea he presents is a valid one.

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

I'm pretty sure you bolded "still save a Monk tremendous amounts of Energy" - how would they ever do so if people don't attack them so they can't actually use them?

And he said it was energy management like the line before that (2 examples of how a Monk manages energy are...).

The build will occasionally decrease energy usage, but only in terms of if the other team decides to wail on you for 12 seconds or however long Dark Escape is up for, while its up. If they don't you essentially have somewhat useless skills. The use they have is the fact the other team will be less likely to attack/try to spike you (except when they get to a decent level and learn to fake out Dark Escapes, keep the time in mind, and hit on what it can't be put back up). Another is the movement they provide, especially in a situation where you're skirmishing, but very few teams are actually effective at doing that so it's almost redundant.

Seriously, do you understand this basic concept at all?

If you don't get hit, the skills to limit the damage you take will not save you energy.

wilderness · Sep 11, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

I'm pretty sure you bolded "still save a Monk tremendous amounts of Energy" - how would they ever do so if people don't attack them so they can't actually use them?

And he said it was energy management like the line before that (2 examples of how a Monk manages energy are...).

The build will occasionally decrease energy usage, but only in terms of if the other team decides to wail on you for 12 seconds or however long Dark Escape is up for, while its up. If they don't you essentially have somewhat useless skills. The use they have is the fact the other team will be less likely to attack/try to spike you (except when they get to a decent level and learn to fake out Dark Escapes, keep the time in mind, and hit on what it can't be put back up). Another is the movement they provide, especially in a situation where you're skirmishing, but very few teams are actually effective at doing that so it's almost redundant.

Seriously, do you understand this basic concept at all?

If you don't get hit, the skills to limit the damage you take will not save you energy.

I'm not calling it perfect...

Avarre · Sep 11, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilderness

I'm not calling it perfect...

He's not calling it imperfect.

He's calling it wrong. For a good reason.

wilderness · Sep 11, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Fine, I won't carry this further.. Yes I understand that you need to be hit for DE to matter in the terms of energy saving he suggests, and yes I understand that decent players won't bother to keep hitting on a monk with DE enabled etc.. I'm tired and I didn't word any of what I was trying to say properly...

I'm arguing semantics mostly, anyway; My Bad.

Ghost Recon · Sep 11, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Way to completely misinterpret him. Either that or you're mentally deficient and can only see things in pure extremes of black and white.

Actually from what he wrote (even though it needs a comma) he indicated that innovative builds are a bad idea and there is no point running them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

He said specifically to stop running builds that are just bad. They're different from the cookie cutter, yes, but different doesn't mean good or useful. The cookie cutters are as such because they're effective and they work well. Why the hell would you run something different if it's clearly inferior?

Maybe it isn't inferior on paper but when you run it, it's weaknesses shows. Also if people didn't make up crazy builds we would be stuck on the same boring builds for years.

Sekkira · Sep 11, 2007, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Stop trying to run something innovative that's just bad. != Stop trying to run something innovative, that's just bad.

Ghost Recon pointed out his statement needed a comma. By placing a comma within the statement, yes he would be right, but would make it something entirely different to what Vanquisher was saying.

He said simply to stop running bad builds just for the sake of being different (Stop trying to run something innovative that's just bad).

He did not say stop running different builds as anything other than cookie cutter is bad (Stop trying to run something innovative, that's just bad).

I'm not being a git, I'm being punctual and precise. Recon, on the other hand is being an ignorant tard.

Selket · Sep 11, 2007, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

They got a bit embarrassed when they tried to interview someone with no life trying to act self important because he's 'good' at HvH.

You actually thought that was serious?

Man, what.

Ghost Recon · Sep 11, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

He said simply to stop running bad builds just for the sake of being different (Stop trying to run something innovative that is bad).

Fixed.

12 chars

Vanquisher · Sep 11, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Maybe it isn't inferior on paper but when you run it, it's weaknesses shows. Also if people didn't make up crazy builds we would be stuck on the same boring builds for years.

If we were still on KGYU degen pressure or Blackout-Push I would be very, very happy playing this game.

However we are playing block wars, and it is not fun.

Ghost Recon · Sep 11, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Leave the whinging about poor grammar at school, thanks.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Sep 11, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

All that i really have to say is... lol

TheHaxor · Sep 11, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

The Mo/A commonly has two Assassin skills: Return and Dark Escape.

Quote:

Although the Monk/Assassin has declined in popularity

How did everyone miss these two gems? Last time I checked, pretty much no one runs both on the same bar because that is retarded since there are more useful skills to have that you can use on your teammates. Also, last time I checked most all the LoD's run Mo/A with return. How is that a decline in popularity?

Sha Noran · Sep 11, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

People read those?

For a while I read them for the lulz, but after a while the misinformation was so abysmal that it stopped even being funny. It's just embarrassing.

Retribution X · Sep 11, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

He said simply to stop running bad builds just for the sake of being different (Stop trying to run something innovative that's just bad).

I really took it as, "Stop trying to run innovative builds that ARE Bad"

Nothing against good innovative builds. (which usually end up as cookie cutter builds...)

Just please, no 8-res skillbars. tha's an example of innovative, but useless. (Especially in AB. god help us all...)